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 Heat Exchange and Light

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Valerius Maximus
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PostSubject: Heat Exchange and Light   Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:42 pm

Hypothesis: Energy in Minecraft can be mapped out into constants and usable equations, just like on Earth. The constants and equations will obviously have to be different in order to fit the more flexible nature of the minecraft Universe. By basing everything off of a unit which I am calling "The Cobble" [Just as there are Joules in true Chemistry] Each fuel and heat/light producing object can be given a value as to how much heat/light they give off compared to everything else.


First Test: What is a Cobble?

To set up this experiment, I built a furnace, and got a few stacks of cobblestone, coal, logs, and a few buckets of lava [three main fuels]

It turns out that all materials cause cobblestone to be transformed at the same rate... which is good! Because in a furnace, what is doing the transforming is NOT the fuel, but the fire and heat generated by the fuel. The more efficient or powerful the fuel, the more fire and heat it can generate, therefore, the more cobblestone it can convert. I have decided that the amount of heat a fire produces in 10 seconds shall be called "1 Cobble"or, C. You'll understand why after seeing this data...

Trial time results are nearly exactly the same for all fuel types, deviations are due to human error.
Not all fuel types can yield as many as 8 cobblestone, but still produce it at the same rate.

Cobble Cooking Data (Click to see data)
Spoiler:
 

Now we're getting somewhere. I am going to set up a constant now called "Rate of Fire" [Fr]which forever seems to be 10s/1c where c is 1 cobblestone block. This measurement can also be called C, [uppercase, different from lowercase] also known as 1 Cobble. Essentially, 1 Cobble is the amount of energy a minecraft fire releases in 10 seconds, it is enough to transform 1 cobblestone into a stone.

With these values, keeping in mind that each fuel lasts for it's own specific length of time we can now derive the Cobble Value for each fuel type using an equation such as this:

pC = Mf * x/Fr

pC is cobbles, potential in this case because we are being theoretical.
Mf is essentialy the amount of time it takes for 1 of a fuel to be used up [in seconds]. A fuel will always be used up in the same amount of time, depending on what it is. This value is a variable constant [if that makes sense].

These are the Mf values I gathered:
Coal - 80s
Log - 15s
Wood - 15s (however, 1 log makes 4 of these... more on that later)
Stick - 5s
Lava Bucket - 1000s

x is the amount of the material you have, unitless.
Fr is the "Rate of Fire" that we found to be 10s/c

We can run a test equation on Coal to find out it's energy in terms of pC:
pC = 80s(1)/10s/c

pC = 80s(1c)/10s

pC = 8c

So in this case, 1 Coal has an energy value of 8C, or 8Cobbles.

Frankly, the name Cobble is arbitrary, as I have found that ALL materials absorb the equivalent of 1 cobble in order to be manufactured, such as, sand -> glass, and, iron ore -> ingots.


Second Test: So what is the best fuel?

Well... that's a tough question. Are you talking about the most efficient fuel, or the most powerful fuel? How about the most abundant fuel? If you're going for convienience, Coal is the way to go, it's a staple. 8 Coal, 64 blocks of whatever, done. But coal is definitely not as readily availible as wood is, and by breaking 1 log up into 4 wood, you have yielded something with a potential energy of 6C while a coal which you have to go mining for has the potential energy of 8C. The 2C difference is a convenience at best. Making wood into sticks in not advised as this lowers your fuel efficiency by around 33.33% from 4 wood blocks.

Lava is by far the most powerful fuel, and MAY be seen as the most efficient, but it takes very very long to prepare a bucket of lava compared to a 4 block stack of wood. wood is the value pack, Lava is the bulk for those who are patient.

I've gone ahead and calculated the potential values of all of the most widely used fuels for your viewing pleasure:
Coal - 8C
Log - 1.5C
Wood - 1.5C * 4
Stick - .5C * 8
Lava - 100C

Third Test: Light?

Light in minecraft is slightly confusing, and there are many puzzling factors as to what I've calculated.

Firstly, now that we know the pC of some raw materials, proceeding to analyze the pC of compounds we may attempt to discover how pC relates to Light.

1 Torch is composed of 1/4 coal and 1/4 stick. This is because 1 coal and 1 stick makes 4 torches.

To calculate the pC of a torch we must do the following:

(pC Coal + pC Stick) / 4

(8 + 1/2)/4 = 17/8

So the energy required to light a torch is equal to 17/8 Cobbles. That amount of energy could convert 2.125 cobblestone into stone.

After studying the amount of light given off by a torch, I've come to the conclusion that it is SLIGHTLY less bright that that of a normal fire, and equally as bright to a fire given off by a furnace. This leads me to the conclusion that the fire in the furnace is actually burning as bright as a normal fire and is simply stifled by the stone walls of the furnace. This also leads me to the next step of this experiment... The failings and mysteries.

Conclusions/TL;DR/ Failings and mysteries-
Flame produces enough energy to convert 1 cobblestone to smooth stone in 10 seconds.
Different fuels can produce flame for longer amounts of time.
Each multiple of 10 seconds a fuel can produce flame is called 1 Cobble. The Cobble can be considered the base unit of heat in Minecraft.
By adding the potential Cobbles of materials, the potential cobbles of compounds can be calculated, however...

this does not always hold true.

Logs burn the same as wood... though logs technically have more material
Chests and Workbenches though made of more wood burn for the same amount of time as 1 wood...
Jack-O-Lanterns somehow burn brighter than normal exposed torches...

Brimstone/Sulfur/Lightstone/Brightstone/Australium does not produce a flame and cannot be used as fuel, yet it produces light equal to that of flame, and heat as well. Perhaps it is some inherent hellish property, or perhaps it is operating off of some sort of chemical flourescence...

I need your brilliant minds to help me with this one Smile

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The Maximus Paradigms
Empathy is the key to success.
Life can be characterized by the reduction of entropy.
Identity is futile.
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obolisk0430
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:37 pm

Hoping its okay to post replies to experiments.

Fort the jack-o-lantern. Perhaps the jack-o-lantern adds a modifier to the amount of light, but not the amount of heat, produced.
Also, i believe the lightstone naturally gives off light in a manner that doesn't emit heat.
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:31 am

Notch has added charcoal! Now, smelting a log will produce an object indistinguishable from coal plucked from the earth. Now 1 log can smelt 6 objects if broken into planks. Use those 6 smelts to make 6 charcoal. Now you have used 7 logs (42 smelts) to make 6 coal (48 smelts). A mere 6 smelt increase, but this coal, in turn, can be used to make 8 more coal out of logs. Now THAT's efficiency! I think you may want to revise your experiment because of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:23 pm

Brilliant tests, good seemingly reliable data.
Well thought out conclusions, and very good formulas.

But yeah, pity it needs revising already due to charcoal in the update, would love to see what you find with it though.

And my thoughts on lightstone:
It's from the nether, which is full of Lava and therefore heat. The Lightstone may undergo chemical reactions that are very efficient at releasing energy in light form - but not heat. Also - it may contain stores of the energy it gains from the heat within it, which is what allows it to continue emitting light in the normal world.

All that is needed for that to be reasonable would be a reversible reaction. Something quite simple Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:39 pm

Actually, i just realized this. The nether preaty much means that there is magic. Magic can throw science out the window.
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:22 am

How so?
It's just another frontier for science.
Science is the rules on which the universe is run.
Magic is just science we don't yet understand.
We just don't have a full buildup of the science in the nether yet Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:15 pm

jeroxy wrote:
How so?
It's just another frontier for science.
Science is the rules on which the universe is run.
Magic is just science we don't yet understand.
We just don't have a full buildup of the science in the nether yet Smile

Very nicely put, and I'd have to agree. The concept of light without heat (even the slightest) is hard for me to grasp when it comes to light stone. Light requiring energy, and energy giving off heat...
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm

tofupuppet wrote:
jeroxy wrote:
How so?
It's just another frontier for science.
Science is the rules on which the universe is run.
Magic is just science we don't yet understand.
We just don't have a full buildup of the science in the nether yet Smile

Very nicely put, and I'd have to agree. The concept of light without heat (even the slightest) is hard for me to grasp when it comes to light stone. Light requiring energy, and energy giving off heat...

Maybe Lightstone produces an endothermic reaction that converts the heat around it into light?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endothermic
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:16 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:19 pm

Jeroxy wrote:
And my thoughts on lightstone:
It's from the nether, which is full of Lava and therefore heat.
The Lightstone may undergo chemical reactions that are very efficient at releasing energy in light form - but not heat.
Also - it may contain stores of the energy it gains from the heat within it, which is what allows it to continue emitting light in the normal world.

I like how just a few days after I post this I start on enthalpy in a-level chemistry Very Happy
So I agree with 5n, endothermic reactions are the way to go.
So I think I can simplify it to a couple basic steps:

>Heat from surroundings taken in.
>Bonds in lightstone molecules break, in an endothermic reaction.
>Products of that reaction then react in the reverse (Reversible reaction)
>Exothermic reaction takes place, with the energy being given out as light energy.
>Rinse and repeat.

Science: 1 Nether unknowns: 0
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Valerius Maximus
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:12 pm

Unless Lightstone is the perfect high efficiency machine of ultimate Notch god genius... no matter WHAT... there is always energy lost as heat... Even in the process of a reversible reaction where you have...


Reactants + Energy - > Products

If you reverse it...

Products - > Reactants + ENERGY

_______________________________________________

The Maximus Paradigms
Empathy is the key to success.
Life can be characterized by the reduction of entropy.
Identity is futile.
Emptiness and Fullness are inherently the same.
Nothingness is Perfection.
Knowledge is forever.
Erroneous information hastens destruction.
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Cathbadhian
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:22 am

Valerius Maximus wrote:
Unless Lightstone is the perfect high efficiency machine of ultimate Notch god genius... no matter WHAT... there is always energy lost as heat... Even in the process of a reversible reaction where you have...


Reactants + Energy - > Products

If you reverse it...

Products - > Reactants + ENERGY

Not to mention that emitting light (not only heat) is an energy loss itself. If I were to theorise, I'd point at persistent luminescence (a bit like phosphorescence but not quite the same) as a result of excitation from a powerful energy source - examples could include UV light or gamma rays. My bet would be on gamma rays (the source probably being within the material itself), which may indicate that Lightstone is actually radioactive as well as luminescent, and lethal over time.

Hmm, might be a good idea not to carry around lightstone dust all the time guys...
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Valerius Maximus
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:18 pm

I'd buy that Lightstone is radioactive, for a few reasons.

_______________________________________________

The Maximus Paradigms
Empathy is the key to success.
Life can be characterized by the reduction of entropy.
Identity is futile.
Emptiness and Fullness are inherently the same.
Nothingness is Perfection.
Knowledge is forever.
Erroneous information hastens destruction.
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5n
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PostSubject: Re: Heat Exchange and Light   Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:01 am

Maybe it's like a hyper-powered phosphorus?
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